Paradigm Concepts

[Rmfiranek]

ok question i'm trained in ranged (marksmenship) but i don't have the weapon talent for a pistol... what the pentalty for using a pistol in combat?

[Nierite]

The penelty is that you cannot learn weapon tricks on the pistol.
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Cody Bergman

aka = Haakon Marcus val'Virdan, Priest of Nier (Divine 1.
aka = Dyabe val'Abebi, Templar of Althares (Divine 1.4)
aka = Jorma Ostoman, Battlemage of the Coryani Empire (Arcane 1.2)

[Rmfiranek]

so you only take a pentaly when your not trained in the skill?

[Nierite]

It only specifies negatives for using MELEE skills untrained, not ranged. (pg. 156 and 160). As such, according to the rules the only restriction is that you cannot perform Weapon Tricks.
_________________
Cody Bergman

aka = Haakon Marcus val'Virdan, Priest of Nier (Divine 1.
aka = Dyabe val'Abebi, Templar of Althares (Divine 1.4)
aka = Jorma Ostoman, Battlemage of the Coryani Empire (Arcane 1.2)

[Archangel]

[SamhainIA]

uhhh what? Brian I think you are referencing the results of a rule and not providing us with the rule itself, can you enlighten us to what you are refering to?
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--Josh Elliott
Harvester of Eastern Iowa and associated Dominions

[Archangel]

Simple version: If you don't have weapon training (the talent) you don't get the weapon tricks for that weapon. If you have training in a skill (melee or ranged) and try to use a different specialization it is at -5 from your highest specialization of that skill.

Neirite was saying that only melee had the -5 (unless I was misunderstanding him). I was correcting that the same penalties apply in both melee and ranged because the ranged skill's "combat" section states it is the same as that of the melee skill.
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Brian Trahan

[Nierite]

I personally find it ambiguous because the untrained section appears distinct from the combat section. The fact that they both specify the appraise section, it seems that ranged can be done without the penetly.

It makes sense, though. If you have 9 ranks in Ranged Archery, and no ranks in Melee: Marksman, it would give you a +4 in Ranged: Marksman instead of +0 from doing it untrained.
_________________
Cody Bergman

aka = Haakon Marcus val'Virdan, Priest of Nier (Divine 1.
aka = Dyabe val'Abebi, Templar of Althares (Divine 1.4)
aka = Jorma Ostoman, Battlemage of the Coryani Empire (Arcane 1.2)

[hustonj]

I agree with the general consensus given above, but want to try to be explicit on several point sin one post.

1) If you do not have Weapon Training with a weapon, you do NOT suffer any explicit penalties for using that weapon, but you have no access to either the Qualities or Tricks of the weapon in question.

In example, anyone can pick up a dagger and try to stick people with it. If you are not trained with the dagger, however, you can not use the Thrown quality.

2) If you do not have the skill to use the weapon you are holding, then you take your highest related skill (melee for melee and ranged for ranged, ne'er the twain shall meet) and use it at a -5 penalty. If you are not trained in a related skill, then you are working with 0 skill ranks and a -5 penalty. Still pretty simple.

Further note that a lack of the correct skill will prevent access to the weapon Tricks just as lack of weapon training will, but does NOT prevent access to the weapon Qualities.

In the example question which started the thread, the Marksman without weapon training: flintlock pistol can fire the sucker well enough, but he can not use any of the weapon Tricks or Qualities (notably the melee quality allowing you to use it as a bludgeoning weapon).
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Valeriano Innocenzo Camillo de Larissa la Galletti
San Antonio, Tx-based Harvester
Jeff Huston
huston.harvester@cox.net