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wmullen
Joined: 17 Nov 2011
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 Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 1:29 pm Post subject: Can Bloodline Talents Stack with Regular Talents? |
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I know that Talents can not stack un less otherwise noted. However, the rules also state that bonuses from different sources can stack. Are Bloodline Talents a different source than regular Talents?
If I have Purity of Violence, which grant pluses to my MI, Can I invoke His Might is Our Own and choose to add the pluses to Mi as well?
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Will Mullen
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Dead.Zone
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 323
Location: Pontiac, MI
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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I believe that the answer is no. A Talent is a Talent. I expect that Bloodline Talents only get their own section in the book for organizational purposes. (It's much easier to read and digest them this way.) And not because they are significantly different from the other (non-racial) talents.
Scott
No one official. |
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Archangel
Joined: 15 Aug 2011
Posts: 395
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Dead.Zone wrote: | I believe that the answer is no. A Talent is a Talent. I expect that Bloodline Talents only get their own section in the book for organizational purposes. (It's much easier to read and digest them this way.) And not because they are significantly different from the other (non-racial) talents.
Scott
No one official. |
I do believe I've seen Pete say something to this effect here before. It kind of makes me sad since I want to take a bloodline talent that adds to avoidance and have to get battle magi for a fighting style, so they won't work together.
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Nierite
Joined: 20 Jan 2010
Posts: 1740
Location: Edmonton, Canada
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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Unless the talent says otherwise they do not stack, and racial talents like bloodline talents are still talents. For example, the val'Mehan power at Tier one that is not Oathmaker does not stack eith Prodigy.
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Cody Bergman
aka = Haakon Marcus val'Virdan, Priest of Nier (Divine 1.
aka = Dyabe val'Abebi, Templar of Althares (Divine 1.4)
aka = Jorma Ostoman, Battlemage of the Coryani Empire (Arcane 1.2) |
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StatMonkey
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Joined: 31 May 2007
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 4:08 pm Post subject: Re: Can Bloodline Talents Stack with Regular Talents? |
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| wmullen wrote: | I know that Talents can not stack un less otherwise noted. However, the rules also state that bonuses from different sources can stack. Are Bloodline Talents a different source than regular Talents?
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Nope
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Pedro C Barrenechea
Paradigm Concepts, Miami
And all you need to know about Arcanis
New player: "You know, I'm not really sure we *should* win. I'm not sure we made the right choice."
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Deviknyte
Joined: 17 Jun 2009
Posts: 1384
Location: Allen Park, MI
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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@ Pedro: Are some Racial Talents meant to count as a Racial Modifier instead of a Talent Modifier? I was wondering for Of the Mundane and the gnome Advantageous Deformity. These all seem like things intended to stack, considering better options out there, but I could be wrong.
For the most part I was thinking the actual physical ones and Of the Mundane. None of the bloodline ones (elorii or val).
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-Devin Redd, Detroit Harvester
"The Elorii shall rise again!"
Current- Vaerdos kyr'Taliis, Ardakene Elorii Chanter of the Rebirth and the Bright People
Retired- Elysian, Ardakene Elorii Hierophant of Belisarda |
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Harliquinn
Joined: 09 Aug 2010
Posts: 1530
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 10:43 am Post subject: |
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Given the recent discussion (and to be honest I hadn't ever thought about it until now), it seems there may be some talents that need to be looked at and perhaps have some 'exception stacking' added.
For instance:
Seductive requires Honeyed Tongue. Honeyed Tongue gives a +1 bonus to all Persuasion rolls, and Seductive gives +2 to Persuasion (Seduction) rolls. By the stacking rules, Seductive would give only an additional +1 over Honeyed Tongue to only one use of the skill. I'm not sure if that's the intent but it doesn't seem to match other Talents benefits, considering the requirements.
With this in mind, I can drop several Talents from my bard build in that they overlap considerably and I don't feel would add enough benefit to my character to warrant taking (Another example is taking Seasoned Traveler once you have Eclectic Knowledge.)
John
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StatMonkey
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| Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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the limitations on stacking are 100% Intentional, there are only a handful of talents which are being looked at for stacking issues..
again the strict limits on stacking are intentional.
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Pedro C Barrenechea
Paradigm Concepts, Miami
And all you need to know about Arcanis
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Harliquinn
Joined: 09 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the clarification, Pedro.
John
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Ohio Harvester
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Deviknyte
Joined: 17 Jun 2009
Posts: 1384
Location: Allen Park, MI
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| Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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| StatMonkey wrote: | the limitations on stacking are 100% Intentional, there are only a handful of talents which are being looked at for stacking issues..
again the strict limits on stacking are intentional. |
No problem. I totally get it. Stacking is the issue that throws off the balance of a game.
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-Devin Redd, Detroit Harvester
"The Elorii shall rise again!"
Current- Vaerdos kyr'Taliis, Ardakene Elorii Chanter of the Rebirth and the Bright People
Retired- Elysian, Ardakene Elorii Hierophant of Belisarda |
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Harliquinn
Joined: 09 Aug 2010
Posts: 1530
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| Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Deviknyte wrote: | | StatMonkey wrote: | the limitations on stacking are 100% Intentional, there are only a handful of talents which are being looked at for stacking issues..
again the strict limits on stacking are intentional. |
No problem. I totally get it. Stacking is the issue that throws off the balance of a game. |
I guess I haven't seen a big problem with stacking in what I've looked at, except where some combat maneuvers are concerned. For instance, I find it hard to see why after taking Honeyed Tongue, then Seductive, I only net an additional +1 to Persuasion (Seduction) rolls. Yet, I'm given to understand Weapon Mastery I stacks hit bonuses with Wolf Pack Tactics. No offense is meant, just not seeing the stacking problems I hear can arise.
John
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Ohio Harvester
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Deviknyte
Joined: 17 Jun 2009
Posts: 1384
Location: Allen Park, MI
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| Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Harliquinn wrote: | I guess I haven't seen a big problem with stacking in what I've looked at, except where some combat maneuvers are concerned. For instance, I find it hard to see why after taking Honeyed Tongue, then Seductive, I only net an additional +1 to Persuasion (Seduction) rolls. Yet, I'm given to understand Weapon Mastery I stacks hit bonuses with Wolf Pack Tactics. No offense is meant, just not seeing the stacking problems I hear can arise.
John |
In the case of Seduction, you are right. The talent is lack luster not stacking.
As per WMI. Everyone had it and a lot of your other talents made it useless. Most Martial characters are going to have WMIV and it won't stack with any other talent they have either.
One thing about this game is that the things that add to skills and damage are kept in check and also are very low number to begin with. There are a few things out there that I think are overpowered but hey.
@Pedro: Waylay and Murderous Precision still don't official stack if you still want them to.
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-Devin Redd, Detroit Harvester
"The Elorii shall rise again!"
Current- Vaerdos kyr'Taliis, Ardakene Elorii Chanter of the Rebirth and the Bright People
Retired- Elysian, Ardakene Elorii Hierophant of Belisarda |
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Harliquinn
Joined: 09 Aug 2010
Posts: 1530
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| Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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I thought that the designers had done a pretty good job of keeping the stacking problems in check. There aren't that many Talents that I could find that truly duplicate skill bonuses. Usually there's one Talent for the General Skill and one Talent for a specialization of the skill. Some of the ones that popped out at me around skill uses are:
Honeyed Tongue / Seductive (Particularly since Seductive has HT as a pre-req)
Eclectic Knowledge / Seasoned Traveler
Street Smarts / Judge of Character
Street Smarts / Seasoned Traveler / Information Network
Wary / Stealthy (Tier II)
Wary / Shady (Tier II) / Investigator
Close Ties / Bunch of Talents
John
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- Harliquinn, John Bellando
Ohio Harvester
Kelb'Bakari, Dark-kin Altherian Corsair, Gentleman Archaeologist
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