Paradigm Concepts

[Hat]

Actually Caleb's initial comment was that the Sensates were influenced by the Silence. My challenge was that his post didn't seem to reflect the "surprise" nature that Henry hinted at.

Thinking about things further I would expect that the Silence and the SK are natural enemies. The success of entropy simply absorbs or destroys the dominion that the SK seeks.

Maybe our current conjection on the BI is too narrow. Are we convinced there will only be 2 sides? The write up certainly seems like 2 (For or against Cafela), but I have to wonder.

If it's clear from the lead up mod that the Sensates are in league with the Silence what permutations do we have?

Sensates / Silence / Cafela in Rebellion vs.
Oracles / Ymmandragorans / Loyalists

Natural Rebels probably join the Oracular side as Cafela's stayed Neutral, though it ties up Cal's forces, so perhaps not.

I'm not sure that it's enough of a draw though to push folks to suport the Sensate / Silence / Cafela in Rebellion side which means either making it more attractive or the other side less so.

So, assuming Cal's big goal all along is fighting the Silence, say he taps his il'Huan allies as part of the 'loyalist' forces.

That would end up making it:
Sensates / Silence / Cafela in Rebellion vs.
Oracles / Ymmandragorans / Loyalists / il'Huan

That would potentially be a much harder choice. The opportunity to fight against the Loyalists, the Ymmandragorans and the il'Huan especially after the Battle of Enpebyn would be awfully tempting for Rebel leaning characters. The problem is that they'd be fighting against the Oracles and for the Silence. Does adding the il'Huan make it too clear of a choice to fight for the Sensates? Should the il'Huan be on the other side?

The thing that would help the most in figuring this out is to understand what the central conflict is of the current story arc. In many ways it strikes me as the Story of Calcestus in the same way that the 6 Star Wars movies tell the story of Anakin / Darth Vader. If that's true I find the fact that there are 6 movies and 6 years amusing. As Caleb points out though the story could equally be about the redemption of Manetas, the Pride of Illir though I find the story of Calcestus more compelling than that of Manetas given the air time Cal's gotten. Menesis still has a role to play in all this the question is simply how and what.

I expect then that the beginning of the arc has been Calcestus' fall with the question of his redemption yet to be determined and in his own redemption, does he redeem or destroy the Pride of Illir?

Of course given Henry's surprises to date this is probably WAY off course, but still fun to speculate on.

As for why the current characters won't be involved in the next Story Arc, I think the simple answer is that they simply won't. There is no method shy of moving the focus off Onara and elsewhere to cover all instances. Advancing time still leaves plenty of viable characters, a great sacrifice through a mod only eliminates a single character and many folks have multiple.

I think it's simply going to be a matter of fairness and logistics. Everyone should start the next arc on the same footing and conversion from the existing system to the new one isn't worth the headaches.

Ok, enough ramblings for now.

With a sweep of his hat,

Paul

[agnos83]

[Vashti]

I'm not at all convinced it's Manetas. Keep in mind, if Manetas is fallen (that's not a given), then the Valinor who showed up isn't him. They lose their wings when they fall, it appears. At least, the ones we have seen have (Xabal, Zith, Losnek for certain...)

I made an argument some years ago that an epic-powered Voiceless One (and it'd have to be, right?) could plausibly pull off the trick, and that the method certainly fell within the known modus operandi of the VO. We saw this in the Lavender Way, we saw this in the Citadel of Silence cut scenes, we saw this in the plains of Balantica.

Yes, I know it's not been a compelling argument But...I think enough is there that if it IS the case, then we've had enough signs to accept it. Plus, imposters are a VERY big theme for Arcanis (Anshar/Belisarda/Yig, Attalus, Alezha, the Flayed Lady, even Calestus and Osric).

In fact, this is as much a testimonial on Henry & Co.'s conniving eviltude that such a disguised manipulation might actually seem like a blunt instrument!

I still feel the Sensates would be siding with Calsestus, but that's just opinion.

Either way, it will be personally extra-interesting, as my PC is is a Savonan Gentry Diviner Mage (and Legionnaire), and his wife is a Savona Gentry Sensate Priestess. Both are moderate in our views but...yeah, could be REAL interesting.

Michael

[niliin]

For one as an Oracular Cleric this should be an interesting series to play in. My character has an irrational belief that all Sensates are out to get him, and he doesn't believe anything they say. But that's besides the point, hard to tell some GM's that it's irrational not just me trying to bypass bluff rules, but anyways.

Reason why this should be interesting, prophecy says that Menisis must live for mankind to survive (If memory serves) yet from what happens the silence get in the way to try and save him, on at least two occasions.

Some could say is this because they want the in fighting to continue or not. Anyways, I look forward to Origins this year (first time going) and expect a few brain screws for my character.

[EricGorman]

[Hat]

Well, I played Shattering the Light over the weekend. It definitely puts this discussion in perspective. Not a hundred percent, but I have a much better idea (I think) about what's coming to Cafela. I can say I'm glad I've got a golf bag of weapons which is a bad thing to have to say as a primary caster. Should be an awesome Origins and I'm looking forward to getting to the bottom of things - just don't take that too literally.

With a sweep of his hat,

Paul

[Vashti]

One thing worth clearing up -- Did that Prophecy say MENISIS would sit on a throne and/or be needed...or the "Shadow Lion"?

The famous fallacy about prophecies is guessing wrong.

"Hail the High General of the Empire. Hail the conquering hero. The wailing of the vanquished shall be your heralding and the throne shall be your spoils."

Now...this was said IN Menisis' home. Does that necessarily mean it meant him? We all assume it. But, for instance, could it conceivably refer to Roderick, or even Adolphus? Dorjan is a High General and so is that other Nierite who's been raising caine. Who is the ranking General for the Rebels now? Tacitus val'Borda? There are a couple of val'Borda, and while Shadow Lion has an obvious connotation for val'Tensen, the 'shadow' part has an obvious connotation for Cadicans (like Manx val'Borda, the past defender).

Anyway, travel safe, everyone!

Michael

[shadowdemon_lord]

Heh, the wording was "Hail the High General" not "Hail the Defender?". Call this splitting hairs, but that's interesting. It COULD be referring to Menisis, but he wasn't the high general, he was the defender. At one point he was a high general, but he isn't anymore. Who the current defender of the empire is now is a good question, if it has one. Did the entire player base collectively jump to conclusions about that prophecy that simply aren't true? I don't think it would be the first time.

As to the larger debate. I'm not convinced the Il'Huan and the empire still have a working alliance. That alliance seemed like a "get me on my feet" alliance to me (at least on the Il-Huan side), and the Il'Huan are certainly on their feet. (as a side note, wonder what that giant Ellorri we all saw at Enpyben is doing at the moment, I have a feeling she'll be re-entering the story line soon). I think this BI will see an open attack from the forces of the silence as the special assault. Kinda like the trolls or shadow creatures. The silence wont take obvious sides, that would unify the player base to heavily on one side, basically pitting the Mourners vs. everyone else. To black and white, Henry and Co are going to make us agonize over our decisions. However, I think the subtle nature of the Silence may have just been traded for raw power, and that implies a more direct approach to things. We may even see the high level tables fighting off waves of VO's, I hope you all still have your gladii of light .

We could also see an attack by the demons, they seem to be throwing their forces around willy nilly.

However, I think we may see hints of the influence and assistance of the forces of the Silence for the side(s) that represent loyalist and/or sensates. No guarantee that the two will be standing side by side, be their for the same reason, or even both be their. An interesting twist would be if Cal sat it out, with only cafelan/oracular, sensate, and rebel forces at the battle. I could easily see the oracular and rebel sides at odds with each other, especially if the Silence has been meddling with prophecy recently, and the battle is in part over the soul of Menisis Val'Tensen. This would be even better if no solid evidence is presented that THAT prophecy was messed with, just implied in ways that are open to interpretation.

I think this BI may finally see the re-unification of the Val'Borda and the Cadician church, in defense of the Oracular Larrisans, no matter who else is at the battle. We might get something weird like seeing the Cadicians standing side by side with the Cafelans and the Savonan oracular legions, fighting against the rebel forces trying to get their general back, while Sensate Savonan legions ally up with Cal in a power play by the Sensates in an attempt to crush the Oracular sect. In the middle of this, the SK is going to be manipulating things behind the scenes to get, what? Not sure.

At any rate, I've got my money on the demons showing up in the midst of the chaos and wreaking havoc.