Paradigm Concepts

[Nierite]

I am trying to get my friend (who is homosexual) to join a table here and as individuals (from my experience) tend to play characters that at least somewhat match their experiences, I was wondering what the attitudes of the people's of Onara is towards homosexuality, and more generally LGBTA issues?

I know that in ancient Rome homosexuality was accepted as long as people ascribed towards more GENDER lines (masculin/feminine). For example, it was not considered a loss of masculinity for a man to have sex with another man, so long as they took the dominent, penetrative position.

Also, with the Larissan church, I'm inclined to believe that it is more socially acceptable than in our world as hedonism is actually CODIFIED in religious doctrine.
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Cody Bergman

aka = Haakon Marcus val'Virdan, Priest of Nier (Divine 1.
aka = Dyabe val'Abebi, Templar of Althares (Divine 1.4)
aka = Jorma Ostoman, Battlemage of the Coryani Empire (Arcane 1.2)

[mighty28]

I think you hit the nail pretty much on the head. You are going to find it will vary based on which Arcanis culture you are talking about. It has never really been brought up in mods, etc. (that I recall) I would just advise that you know your table. Your player, whether doing a gay Coryani Centurian or a straight Larissan dominatrix needs to be willing to tone it down if marshalled at a table with a family with younger kids playing.
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Matthew Flinn
Indiana Harvester/Indentured Servant

"Every combat is overpowering if you are incompetent"

[Nierite]

Of course, I was just wondering what the cultural mores were for or against such orientations in case I get asked when making characters.
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Cody Bergman

aka = Haakon Marcus val'Virdan, Priest of Nier (Divine 1.
aka = Dyabe val'Abebi, Templar of Althares (Divine 1.4)
aka = Jorma Ostoman, Battlemage of the Coryani Empire (Arcane 1.2)

[Archangel]

Keep in mind with the more recent changes in the Mother Church that there will likely be conflicting views within the church itself as well. Those subscribing to the newer more ridged moral views are likely far less accepting of homosexuality in general. While those who have an older view are more likely, though certainly not guaranteed, to be more accepting.

In general I would expect the areas with a more laissez-faire attitude to be more accepting, while those with more ridged standards to be any where from disgruntled stares to out right hostile (obviously depending on the culture and how harshly they view it).

Just my 2 copper on the matter.
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Brian Trahan

[PCIHenry]

Cody,

It would be incredibly time consuming to go nation by nation, race by race and detail their social mores on the subject.

This is a fantasy world and as long as everyone at the table is comfortable with how characters are portrayed, it should not be an issue.

This is a situation that should be handled with sensitivity not only for the LGBTA player, but for those who interact with said player.

Best,
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Henry Lopez
President
Paradigm Concepts, Inc.

[Nierite]

Okay, I'm down with that. I was wondering if there was something distinctly pro- or anti- to the subject. Thanks
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Cody Bergman

aka = Haakon Marcus val'Virdan, Priest of Nier (Divine 1.
aka = Dyabe val'Abebi, Templar of Althares (Divine 1.4)
aka = Jorma Ostoman, Battlemage of the Coryani Empire (Arcane 1.2)

[hustonj]

You've had some very good answers, but I gotta butt in . . ..

It is always about the table, not the campaign.

The limits of explicit discussion are set by the table's social limits. A heterosexual player stopping the module story so that they can force everybody else listen to an exposition about one of their fantasies as they act it out in character is unreasonably selfish behavior pretty much anywhere except a private home game.

The same holds true for a homosexual player.

If I'm running a table, I never spend the time on interactions past public flirting (whether subtle or not), because that ends up spending too much table time on something only one player really cares about.

If there are younger players at the table, I will try to stomp on a lot of innuendo from the other players, and set my limits far more restrictively.

Something I had a hard time teaching my gay son, but I think he's finally learned (he's 24, now): Your sexuality really won't matter to the majority of people you meet. It will become an issue (most of the time) only if you choose to force it on other people. They don't care until you force them to. Then you've set yourself up as the enemy.

As a rule, gamers care less.
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Valeriano Innocenzo Camillo de Larissa la Galletti
San Antonio, Tx-based Harvester
Jeff Huston
huston.harvester@cox.net

[Auroris]

As a long-time fan of Arcanis and a gay gamer I've often been just a little disappointed at the lack of presence of LGBT themes in the campaign. To be fair, campaign staff have ensured me that this is not intentional. I once sent in a mod submission one time that centered around an affair between two noblemen that they were trying to cover up and it was turned down because that's not what would happen in Arcanis. The problem I see there is that until campaign staff told me that, I didn't know. I cannot recall encountering LGBT npc's in the past or any mods that dealt with LGBT issues and I knew that most of the team writing for Arcanis is not gay so I thought they were just writing what they knew. It can be a little discouraging when a core part of your identity doesn't seem to even exist in an otherwise terrific fantasy environment. The assumption of heterosexuality on the part of the audience is always somewhat alienating to those of us who are not hetero.

Now, am I saying that every Arcanis mod needs to have a Larissan in drag flouncing through it? No. But it would be great to run into the occasional LGBT npc or have a mod where heterosexuality is not assumed to be the norm.

I know I've strayed a bit off topic here but to answer the OP what I've been told and what I've encountered in Arcanis is that there shouldn't be any problems with homosexuality across most of Onara. Certainly, just as in the real world, there may be isolated pockets of bigotry and discrimination but for the most part its just another way of life.
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Kailandos, Elorii Chanter of the Rebirth and the Bright People
Prince Arcahvir of the Tir Betoq
Harvester for Iowa
James Vacca

[hustonj]

Quite to the contrary, I thought I saw overtones of historical homosexuality in several of the modules in the last campaign. These were modules dealing with the upper echelon of Coryan society, not just the hedonistic Larissan stuff everybody likes to reference.

The thing is, the modules didn't beat us over the head with it. It was just background material that there was no explicit reason to mention.

The current story arc, focused on an environment controlled by a culture based on a more medieval Germany/Poland, would have a pretty hard time noting homosexual behavior publicly. There is a group of people who have theorized that the source of discord around the Dolphin Throne is based on King Osirc caring more for and about a homosexual lover than his own wife. As the head of a culture based in an environment where that sort of thing could not be public knowledge, this is (if correct) a REALLY big deal.

The concept and idea is not being ignored. It just isn't being used as a blunt object to forward a political agenda. It is being used to forward the story.
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Valeriano Innocenzo Camillo de Larissa la Galletti
San Antonio, Tx-based Harvester
Jeff Huston
huston.harvester@cox.net

[Auroris]

I am glad to know that you have seen these ideas Jeff but I must admit that I'm at a loss as to how to explain where you could have seen them. I consider myself well-versed in Arcanis; I started playing about the middle of season 2 and I attended Origins from about season 3 onwards. While I didn't play absolutely every mod I played a lot and I didn't see any of what you speak of. Can you elaboarate on your examples? And where does the theory about King Osric come from? What is the evidence for it? To my eyes, the way he has been portrayed at interactives and in the printed material does not particularly support it although there's no evidence against either. Also, while I agree that Milandir is loosely based on real-world medieval Germanic nations, why should it have any issues with LGBT peoples or issues? What is your basis for that statement? As I said before, in most cases across Arcanis homosexuality is not something that would need to be hidden. Is Milandir different? If so, why?

Finally, I understand and agree with the point of not using these themes to drive home a political agenda but I am forced to admit that I don't see them being used to serve a story either. That is the essence of my, very minor, complaint.
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Kailandos, Elorii Chanter of the Rebirth and the Bright People
Prince Arcahvir of the Tir Betoq
Harvester for Iowa
James Vacca

[PCIJames]

[Nierite]

I personally think that having it as simply a "oh, okay" part of the universe would be interesting. It is a hot-button issue in our world and having it displayed as simply "part of the world", at least among the Larissan Church and Coryani culture would, in my opinion, be a good thing. Then again, this is also a potential political soap-box, so I see how side-stepping it is also not a bad thing.

Just to reiterate, however, my main question was to assuage players who may wish to introduce more of their own orientations into their characters, and how they would be viewed by the cultures. I'm fairly well versed in history, but alas it is not my main area of expertise.
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Cody Bergman

aka = Haakon Marcus val'Virdan, Priest of Nier (Divine 1.
aka = Dyabe val'Abebi, Templar of Althares (Divine 1.4)
aka = Jorma Ostoman, Battlemage of the Coryani Empire (Arcane 1.2)

[hustonj]

Can I elaborate back to specific events , names, and occurrences in material I haven't seen in several years? No. Is that a reasonable request on your part? Those who game with me regularly know better than to try to talk to me about modules by name or NPC, because they hold no long-term memory hooks for me. Discuss the story, more, and I can connect.

I seem to remember some fairly overt close relationships in the module about the Senator's Seal. I also remember being hired to track down a missing house boy, at great expense, because of how important he was to the master of the house. I have no idea what the names of the modules were, or when they were run.

King Osric was adamant about rewarding an unmarried, male companion with whom he has spent a great deal of time through the years. So much so that when he was preparing to march off to join the Sixth Crusade, he refused to consider naming ANYONE ELSE regent, including his wife or heir, even when he was still trying to convince his son not to run off to die on the front lines. This male companion of his was one of the first (campaign-wise) people killed by the master assassin . . .. The people who described this to me in these terms said there have been clues about that special relationship for years. I have no idea. In keeping with that whole lack of direct memory hook thing, it hasn't been important enough to me for me to try to see it.

And as a blatant reminder, when you are aggressive about pushing this sort of point (gender, sex, race, religion, whatever), when you try to force other people to care, you CREATE opposition out of people who previously didn't care. You CAN force people to care. You can not force them to take your chosen side.

Why do I think open homosexuality is unwelcome in Milandir? Because it IS based on medieval Germany/Poland. When you use a real-world cultural backdrops, you inherit social norms that will be assumed unless specifically corrected. Without just cause to assume an exception, I will default to the known cultural norm for the template.

KISS, right? Don't add complexity and complication unless you NEED to. Fight against adding it even then.
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Valeriano Innocenzo Camillo de Larissa la Galletti
San Antonio, Tx-based Harvester
Jeff Huston
huston.harvester@cox.net

[Auroris]

[KittyCurtis]

I'm *finally* back and able to reply. Are there GLBTQIA NPCs? Yes. What's the ratio like? No way to tell, as the orientation of NPCs is rarely defined, so most people assume straight for the majority.

I've discussed this with some authors, but it looks like it's time to be more public: There is no rule banning GLBTQIA characters. I am not going to alter existing characters to fill a checkbox, but authors are free to include GLBTQIA characters in outlines. If the entire point of an adventure is to show GLBTQIA people exist, I'm going to reject it. If you include a GLBTQIA character to make a freak show out of them, I'm going to reject it. If the entire plot is derailed to show a character's orientation, I'm going to cut that part out. If I see a trend that GLBTQIA characters are always "good" or always "evil", I'm going to fix that.

Any questions?
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~Kitty Curtis~
Legends of Arcanis Campaign Director
director@shatteredempires.com
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