Paradigm Concepts

[Hat]

One of the things I saw in the first campaign arc that I'm at least a lot more sensitive to or is more pronounced in the 2nd arc is the divide between the goals of the Elorii race and the rest of the playable races. The future War of Retribution at least as most people conceive it pits the Elorii against the humans and the val.

1. I've seen folks play it as biding their time and as long as some humans / vals are weakened at the end of it they're fine.
2. I've seen some that won't go out of their way to mess with others, but won't go out of their way to help them either.
3. Finally I've seen some who play as genuinely befriending humans and vals

There was a soft point in the first story arc that helped degrade relations and the war between Entaris and Altheria didn't help.

So is there common ground that is sustainable between the elorii and human nations?

How would you counsel characters on either side to think of things and effectively play nice without feeling like they constantly need to watch their backs?

Thoughts?

With a sweep of his hat,

Paul

[Nierite]

We have two Elorii in our party, one from Elonbé and the other from Entaris. The Elonbéan rationalizes his by saying that he's been a Laerestri (or at least, a traveller) for the last several hundred years in human lands and has something of a mercenary mentality when it comes to humanity. He'll fight wars to keep himself sharp and to pass the time, also he likes gathering information on people with a streak of just being a bit of a jerk towards people.

The other one (my girlfriend) plays an Entaran Soldier of Retribution with the Prejudiced flaw. As such, she doesn't even try to hide her hatred of humans, especially Vals. I think she'll be more pronounced if she ever comes across Altherans or Ss'ressen, though.
_________________
Cody Bergman

aka = Haakon Marcus val'Virdan, Priest of Nier (Divine 1.
aka = Dyabe val'Abebi, Templar of Althares (Divine 1.4)
aka = Jorma Ostoman, Battlemage of the Coryani Empire (Arcane 1.2)

[hustonj]

One of our local players' Elorii character wears an acorn as a pendant on a necklace. It has the word "val" engraved on it in Coryani.

There is no requirement for the players to be given excuses to ignore the conflict. There are LOTS of reasons for Elorii specifically NOT to ignore it.

There are fewer reasons for Elorii to work with all of humanity as a result, and most players will have a far easier time justifying both being an Elorii and being involved if they stick to playing a character with a motivation from that set.

People who want to play Elorii that hate and distrust humans need to accept the consequences of making that character choice. There may well be a LOT of campaign material/modules in which said character would never choose to participate. That is a choice the player made. Choices have consequences.

Many humans, especially those with less education, can simply play stupid on the whole point of the conflict, with no need for justification.

Those with a good education, or a solid religious education, could approach such relationships apologetically. Others could approach it confrontationally, more "Well, if they were REAL gods, they wouldn't have been so easily tricked and consumed!"
_________________
Valeriano Innocenzo Camillo de Larissa la Galletti
San Antonio, Tx-based Harvester
Jeff Huston
huston.harvester@cox.net

[mighty28]

I agree with Jeff. He has summarized every reason why Elorii should either be banned, or people should refuse to sit at tables with them. I can't play someone from Canceri, but I can play a member of a race committed to genocide?
_________________
Matthew Flinn
Indiana Harvester/Indentured Servant

"Every combat is overpowering if you are incompetent"

[EddieS]

[Nierite]

I think that is an over-simplification'.

The whole "Genocide against Humans" thing is a horrible aspect of the Elorii psychology, and it should be banned as far as playable characters go without exception. However, it should be noted that Paradigm DOES specify that the Elorii dedicated to genocide are not playable by making Malfela unplayable as a starting nation.

The other two Elorii nations, Elonbé and Entaris, ARE NOT dedicated to the destruction of humanity, or at least not OFFICIALLY. As far as the rank-and-file Elorii goes, the Humans are the enemy, but not someone to be destroyed outright. The prophacy at the end of the God's War says that humanity is essential for the coming war, and a lot of Elorii know this fact. As such, while Elorii may not LIKE humans, and especially Vals, they are not as a race dedicated to the Genocide of the species.

That being said, it doesn't mean that Elorii are dedicated to necesarilly peaceful interaction with Humanity without exception.

There are plenty of reasons for Elorii characters to dislike humans and plenty of figures that they can dislike without being judged unplayable. The Elorii gods were 'eaten' by the Human Gods Hurrian, Nier, Saluwé, and Yarris. As such, it seems only right that Elorii characters should rail against clergy of the Human Gods, with those four being singled out for the most scorn and distaste. This can take the place of refusing to cast healing spells on party members who worship those gods when their lives don't immediately depend on it (or ever, really. . . ) to intentionally provoking members of the Church. Just look at a lot of the inter-religious conflicts in our own worlds. There has been plenty of blood spilt on all sides, yet it is entirely possible for people on both sides to coexist, and even become friends. There of course will be those who breed fanaticism and terror, but in the Arcanis universe those will be NPC's and the stuff of Stories.

In terms of the major political views of Elorii to the Human nations, regardless of religious conflict, you must also take a step back. There was recently a very noticable war between the Elorii and the Humans in the form of the Entaran-Altherian War. That war didn't exactly end in a way that healed all rifts for people, so there is bound to be some hostility between characters from those nations. They DID, however, end it with a peace settlement. Looking back at our own history there are plenty of examples of formerly warring nations, and people from those nations, coexisting and even becoming friends and allies after the war. Does this mean lingering hatred won't rear its ugly head? No. Does this mean that those characters HAVE to like eachother? No! However, the Entaran-Altherian War did end with both of them fighting a common enemy (the Ssethregorans). As such, there is at least a shred of common ground politically that they can stand upon.

We also know even the playable nation which has the most prominent reason to hate humanity (Entaris) still allows humans to live in their capitol. They are restricted as to where they can live and segregated from the Elorii population, but they are still allowed. Elonbé doesn't allow humans in, but they appear to have a more 'wait and see' attitude when it comes to humanity.

Overall, I think that most Elorii who take part in the various story lines will have to keep in mind one of several motivations for their characters:

1) Mercenaries - They are in this either for profit or glory.
2) Watchers - They are watching humanity, and taking part in these actions as part of their watching. They will help their 'allies' out because ultimately, they aid them in their mission.
3) Missionaries - They are trying to convert humans, or support already converted humans, to their religion.
4) Merchants/Smiths/Scholars - These people are in it for something more material. If you have an Elorii who focus' in mercantile persuits, they are in it for profit. Smiths, Scholars, and even Mages might be in to learn new forms of skills, knowledge, or magic.
5) Exiles - They have nowhere else to go.

These all seem to me to be perfectly valid views as to how and why an Elorii would be in the Crusade and other Human-centric story arcs.
_________________
Cody Bergman

aka = Haakon Marcus val'Virdan, Priest of Nier (Divine 1.
aka = Dyabe val'Abebi, Templar of Althares (Divine 1.4)
aka = Jorma Ostoman, Battlemage of the Coryani Empire (Arcane 1.2)

[Hat]

Cody, I understand your points and can see a rationale for why Elorii may get involved. Your comment that most resonates with Matt's comment of genocide is that Elorii have, do and will continue to see and view humans, Val and others as the enemy. Barring a statement from Belisarda or the war itself that opinion will not change.

Why therefore should non-Elorii trust the actions of a race that continues to view them as the enemy?

with a sweep of his...

Hat

[Milandir]

Not for nothing, but we did go out of our way the point our that when Elonbe sent out the Laestri, they were surprised to learn that humans weren't the horrid monsters they thought they would be.

Novaros, never forget - is a deep concept.
Never forget you were wronged.
Never forget your were enslaved.
Never forget the terrible things you once did.
Never forget your promise to never do them again.

The Prophetess said that humanity would be needed in the end times:

[EddieS]

You forgot one, Milandir.

Never forget that when the time comes .... give them HELL!

[Milandir]

[Nierite]

[Vashti]

[Vashti]

[mighty28]

People have played Elorii with a Malfelan mindset for years, despite starting region. (Jeff's player that he mentioned above is a perfect example)

As Cody pointed out, an Elorii caster could refuse to heal, etc. I have seen some do exactly that. I know of one who killed 4 or 5 PCs (permanently...low level) who were in negatives by dropping a fireball on them (and the sole remaining opponent). I have seen Elorii players abandon there BI tables (Battle of Seremas) to get sanctuary behind the walls.

Players need to make an effort to work together in cooperative play. Playing an Elorii and refusing to aid party members, not to mention outright threats and insults, destroys cooperative play. They are given very good excuses why not to and chuck it up to "i am playing my character".

If people played them as written (seeking to befriend humans per the Belisarda prophecy), or as even silent spies who dont stir the pot, but keep quiet and gather info, it would be different. Many of them dont.
_________________
Matthew Flinn
Indiana Harvester/Indentured Servant

"Every combat is overpowering if you are incompetent"

[Vashti]

True, Matt...but that's not limited to players of Elorii. Maybe it's a little more noticeable, but I've seen Val refuse to heal Elorii. What about the (many) Dark Kin who try to look like Tim Curry from "Legend"? Should they even be able to go into a tavern and have a drink? There's gotta be some hand-waving, just as there has to be the cooperation you note.

I've always thought that players are the best policemen with disruptive tables. We had an Elorii very overtly betray the rest of the party to Erdukeen guards ("Those people there have the doohickey and are trying to smuggle it in. I'd search them. I'm sure you'll want to execute them."). Then screamed bloody murder to the RPGA when we refused to allow him to accompany us the rest of the mod. As for the one who dropped a fireball on endangered companions...that might have warranted a note to Paradigm, but could conceivably be explained.

The follow up is...after awhile you learn not to sit at those tables. I've walked away from tables. The Infernal give a nifty in-game reason to be reasonable allies. Heck, even the warring Altherians and Enarans literally stopped killing each other to ally and fight the attacking Sseth.

Regards,
Michael