Paradigm Concepts

[Vashti]

We have been told so...that by the end, we shall pity Calsestus.

And, given what we've seen so far, I understand the mechanic. But I disagree.

There is one avenue by which there can be anything other than complete scorn, and that is if he has been supplanted and replaced by a doppleganger or other imposter.

And we certainly understand this is possible. It happened with Attalus val'Virdan, after all. Whether it is Punhavi, Dopplegangers, Voiceless Ones or Fallen Valinor...the ranks of the Enemy are rife with shapeshifters, changelings and deceivers.

But...tough.

Let's start with complicity. If Calsestus has been a dupe, even by a Valinor (or Fallen one), then that -might- elicit some pity and sympathy. Except, well...he's enjoyed things far too much for forgiveness. An Imperial "Oops" is not going to be enough for forgiveness.

But that's the easiest and most doubtful conclusion.

So let's assume he's been replaced. Let us suppose we find him one day, quivering in a cell, hungry, beaten and starved and clueless of the events of the past few years. Well, okay, that makes for a tough day. That means we don't get to blame him for the excesses.

On the other hand...the issue of WHEN this replacement/domination/supplanting occurred would then be important. Are we supposed to embrace the return of a Coryani Emperor whose decadence, hedonism, pettiness and corruption brought the Empire to the brink of rebellion? Don't think so! He bears fault for being such an oh-so-perfect stooge.

Or did this replacement take place further back? If so...*shrug* then it involves someone we don't know and while sure, that's a spot of tough luck, he can get in line for that.

But at no point is there anything with him as a replacement where he carries any legitimacy to continue as Emperor. Too much destruction has been wrought in his name or by him, and too much corruption has been enacted by him, to allow him to maintain a leadership position. Too many people will not be able to juggle the dissonance to get past the hate.

If he wants to make amends, to help out and make up for the past misdeeds of himself or his replacement, then fine...grab a gladius and join ranks. I hear he was a pretty good legionnaire (two-time Armillus winner).

I know the response to this is, "Isn't there any room for sympathy for a poor, abused man?" Yes, there is. Along with the sympathy for 90,000 Savonan dead, plus hundreds of thousands more. In other words...get in line.

There may well be circumstances that do not mandate his heart on a lancea. But in the same vein, there are no circumstances that mandate his continuance as Emperor. The sun on that particular landscape has set.

(now we just gotta get the lunatic who sits on the throne - authentic or not - off of there!)
Michael

[Hat]

Wow.

Well, you've covered a number of the options, but missed some, including a plausible path. A reason to pity? How about the following?

Calcestus based on events in year 1 gets a wake up call and decides to stop being a spoiled hedonist and start acting like a real emperor. Unfortunately not long after his conversion, the freeing of Manetas messes with things. Cal initially shows respect and listens to Manetas until he's able to figure out that he's dealing with the fallen Pride of Illir. Perhaps he gets some sense of what Manetas really wants or just realizes that adhering to Manetas' wishes would be bad. He also realizes his court is or has been infiltrated by a bunch of shapeshifters both doppleganger and punhavi and that they seem to be keying into this whole "follow Manetas" plan.

So when - if we're going to make him someone to pity - should he have figured this out and started trying to deal with the situation? Say maybe late year 1 to mid year 2. Yes, that would mean before the Storm, the statue and the killing of the Patriarch. Say Calcestus has it figured out by then, can't trust his court and needs to get out a big sign saying "Hey! Something is really wrong here!" He knows Manetas can either replace him outright with a shapeshifter or simply control him - Neither course gives him a chance to change things. Maybe he's even seen the future that's coming.

So, he's forced to try and play along while throwing up flags to draw attention to the problem. He has to cloak it though in ways that don't draw too much attention to the real reasons for his actions. Perhaps the raising of Cal's statue wasn't Manetas' idea, but Cal's, not in hubris, but to raise the flags that he needs to be dealt with. The invasion of the infernal horde could also have been intended to spoil Manetas's plans or at least delay them.

Declaring Menesis a traitor may have been a move to keep him out of Manetas' reach and push him into acting against a throne increasingly under the control of Manetas and his true allies.

Tragedy is having an Emperor trapped on his throne, unable to act, watching as every action he takes to subtly try and counter Manetas' efforts gets twisted into something that furthers the valinor's goals. Forced to watch and listen to the attrocities committed in his name. Seeing his empire torn apart, innocent citizens slaughtered and the worship of Illir twisted to the point of having fanatics immolating themselves in his name.

As things have continued he has likely had less and less control over anything including his own actions. Maybe Manetas has slowly been merging with him, learning how to exert control without destroying the vessel, until recently the final vestiges of self-control are gone, and Calcestus is simply forced to watch from the prison of his own mind, the actions carried out in his name.

It is evident in the comments of the hard points and the BI that suffering is being forced to live and to witness - not a quick death.

Should Calcestus be freed, who says he'd even WANT the job? I expect what we will find at the end of the story, is a broken man who fought the good fight who wants nothing to do with the rule of an Empire. Which conveniently enough leaves the throne open to another claimant.

Maybe it won't work out in a way that really allows for the player base to pity Calcestus, but I'm at least willing to believe that Henry's got a strong plan to get him there.

With a sweep of his hat,

Paul

[Vashti]

[quote]Tragedy is having an Emperor trapped on his throne, unable to act, watching as every action he takes to subtly try and counter Manetas' efforts gets twisted into something that furthers the valinor's goals. Forced to watch and listen to the attrocities committed in his name. /quote]

Tragedy also is being victim of some of those atrocities.

My point is, even if it turns out he's deserving of pity, then pretty much he needs to get in line with the ever-burgeoning horde.

Michael

[Hat]

We will have to agree to disagree on this one then Michael. If the best possible reaction Calcestus can receive from you regardless of facts and circumstances is 'tough, get in line' then your verdict is already rendered and you simply seek facts to finalize the argument.

I'm not seeking to make a saint out of the man or even necessarily a martyr. Every character and NPC are flawed in some pretty substantial ways which is why Scipio was provided some warts of his own over the last few hard points and BI. Calcestus may be every bit as bad as you and others believe him to be. We'll find out in a year.

With a sweep of his hat,

Paul

[Vashti]

Hey, Paul...That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is...why would Calsestus (and this in the best possible light) be deserving of more sympathy than any of, say, 100,000 dead in Savona? Or any of the countless other victims in the Empire, like the possessed members of the Legion of the Watchful Hunter? Or Menisis' sister and nieces and nephew? Or for that matter, Menisis?

I'm not saying, if in this most favorable instance, that he would not be pitiable, but I question why he would be MORE pitiable than many, many other victims.

Sympathy and pity, sure. But not in excess of the victims of something that was born, after all, in his corruption and decadence.

[Hat]

Because pity is subject to the magnitude of the suffering. Looking at the dictionary, the first definition is:

sorrow felt for another's suffering or misfortune; compasion; sympathy

Those who died in Savona died within a day, perhaps two. The transformation of the Legion of the Watchful Hunter took minutes if that long with the exception of General val'Borda whose incredible will kept him going for a few days. The General was forced to suffer - to watch the numbers grow until each and every member of the Legion was accounted for and yet his suffering was measured in days.

If Calcestus had truly turned a corner and finally felt the call of his herritage, and I'll be the first to admit that's a huge IF, then each loss, each attrocity would wear on his soul. The dead are recycled in Beltine's cauldron, the living have no such release. Depending on the depth of his feelings and exactly when he lost control, his suffering and struggles could be measured in years. Do you pity more the man who has a quick if brutal death or the one who lingers in agony for years, not able to achieve release?

I expect Calcestus will fall somewhere between the early struggling but tragic hero and the black villain he has so often been made out to be. Don't get me wrong, deserving of pity and deserving of rule or power are two way different things, and there are those who must answer for the crimes they committed. I do not think we've seen the last of Dorjan for example - he's too good a villain to pass up and you can only recycle so many. The good news is we'll probably be able to kill him again. Still, a 30 Intelligence? *shudder*

The good news we'll have at least some answers by this time next year, though we may be back to debating what they mean at that point.

With a sweep of his hat,

Paul

[EricGorman]

I feel some pity in and out of character for Calsestus. But Michael is right that there are plenty of other (N)PCs out there and similarly I don't currently hold a special "soft" spot for Cal in my heart. Maybe that will change but I don't think so. For me to feel real pity I would have to believe that he had done more in a tight spot than I (or others) could have accomplished in his shoes. I just don't believe that right now.

Good news, Cal isn't a Nero or a Caligula. Bad news, his reign has been as bad for his (Coryani) empire as the mentioned Emperors were for their (Roman) empires. Maybe worse. My best mental analogy is to somebody like Macbeth...a guy who has some morals that get overrun by circumstances, supernatural forces and bad advice (Macbeth & his mad wife seem to me to have some paralles to Cal by his winged friend).

Not sure if it matters, but for the record while I find his psyche fascinating I don't particularly pity Macbeth either. =)

Savona was the worst of the BIs for damage to the "home terrain" and at the end I wondered if Savona's fate would have been shared by Enpyben and Solonos Mor had the loyalists proved victorious. But ironically it was the weather that was the most destructive. Is the Wrath of Hurrian somehow to blame? We know he "blew up" a nest of the Silence in the Blessed Lands...and that there was entropic activity in Savona.

-Eric Gorman
_________________
~Eisener val'Holryn. Holy Champion of Nier and haunted veteran of the crusade
~Formerly Sir Jaeger val'Holryn, gave his soul to help free King Noen from the LLT Banner

[GTseng3]

He's not Calcestus. The evidence of this continues to mount, but includes the following:

1. Grutan and Cornelius visiting him after the LARP, and noting several important reversals in his behavior.

2. No Armillus has cursed its bearer, regardless of the bearer's actions at Savona.

3. A lot of spoiler information from modules that will actually be released, which I won't go in to here.

However, I think it's safe to say that Calcestus does deserve to be pitied. My personal theory is that some time after the final Origins Hard Point he stood up to certain phenomenally cosmic powers. Realizing that he was no longer going to do what it wished, Calcestus was replaced.

This post is based on my opinions and observations, and represents no special knowledge that Jeffrey the author knows (although, as noted, Grutan and Cornelius did get a personal audience with the Emperor, facilitated by burning some high level favors.)

Jeffrey Witthauer
IK Old Coryan